Curse

A11Eur0 · May 15, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

Link, please? I've never seen a dev post on Guru. I've seen Regina and Martin post, but they're Community Relations, not developers. No disrespect intended, but the two are very different jobs.

Then again, I haven't spent as much time on Guru as some others, so I may have just missed the posts (thus the request for a link).

If the developers read the forums, why did Regina and Martin both recently post that they'd pass along information to the developers? Wouldn't that be kind of redundant?

On the original topic, I'm confused. You (referring to the OP here) say that you've been threatened to be reported for runs/farming. But since you've never been banned... wouldn't that kind of imply that those two actions are not bannable offenses?

Names are a judgment call, that's why there is not a single definitive list of offensive names. And I think that asking for input from ArenaNet in regards to this is doomed to failure. Would you be able to list every name that would be offensive to you?

Regina works in the same building, maybe even the same room/group of cubicles as the developers. Her job is to relay information from the Devs to us and vice versa. How hard is that to understand?

And yes, there are actual developers who have posted but that's few and far between.

nkuvu · May 16, 2009, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Regina works in the same building, maybe even the same room/group of cubicles as the developers. Her job is to relay information from the Devs to us and vice versa. How hard is that to understand?

Having a developer read the forum is not the same as having a community relations manager read the forum then relate that information to the developer. How hard is that to understand?

For example, if Regina reads a post and thinks it's not worthy of a developer's attention, then Regina is acting as a filter -- meaning that not everything on the forum is being relayed. And of course some things may be garbled in translation (that's again, meaning no disrespect to Regina, just a fact of communication between people of differing backgrounds). On the other hand, if Regina relays every single thing to a developer that she reads, then I fail to see the point of her role on the forum. You can understand the distinction here, I'm sure.

But I'm sorry, this is off topic of the thread. I'm not trying to start some grand debate on this.

immortius · May 16, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Regina and Martin don't just relay information, they act as advocates on our behalf - ensuring concerns of the community are raised in meetings and stay on the radar. I'm sure the devs read the forums too, but they are busy on other things so are more likely to miss or forget issues.

Red Sonya · May 16, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

I am not as interested in hearing what we the customers have to say about this as I am to hear what ANET has to say about this.

Then go there and send your message and wait for them to reply. Don't come here crying and whinning and then expect symphathy from us we don't really care if they ban you or not. With that kind of statement I'm pretty sure you did what deserved you getting banned. As most the guilty ALWAYS act all innocent an all when they finally get busted.

Esan · May 16, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

OP, you are wasting your time here as the above post by Red Sonya amply demonstrates. We are not capable of civilized discussion.

II Lucky Charm II · May 16, 2009, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

If there is a standard for this, then he should have been able to tell me, but he refused, because the decision is arbitrary and favors the complaining party. We as victims have no recourse when a GM makes a decision, right or wrong.

The EULA is the standard rules for how a person should behave within the Guild Wars environment. As long as you use your common sense, I'm sure nothing wrong will happen to you. If you think a name might be racist or sexist, then you should avoid using that name, really it's all based on common sense. Decisions based on the GM's opinion is actually good since it is more flexible. If, however, you think that the GM makes a mistake, you can always refute the ban and try to get it lift. In the end, justice will prevail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

What we need is a definitive set of standards for what is appropriate and what is not. We also need an appeals system that allows us to take it one step further if we feel the GM is unfairly or inappropriately interpreting the rules of conduct.

You got to think about this. Setting up a definitive set of standards is very difficult for the developer. Even in today's society, there are still flaws in our justice system if you haven't noticed. You can't just name everything that is illegal and legal, it's not a black and white world. This is when opinion of the GM plays an important role in deciding what to do with the reported person. Like I mentioned earlier, opinion allows for more flexibility over the EULA rule since it is near impossible to put up a set rule of what is right and wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

Can someone from ANET give us a definitive answer as to whether or not Dungeon Runs or Fame Farming is illegal? Is there a price value that makes it bannable? Where can we go to appeal a GM’s judgments?

Though I am not an employee of Anet, I assure you that Dungeon Runs and Fame Farming services are not illegal since they are no where mentioned in the EULA. If, for some reasons, you get banned for doing these services you can always refer back to the EULA to get your ban lifted. Since you accepted the EULA before playing Guild Wars and no where in the EULA did Anet mentioned anything about these services being illegal, you are playing along with their rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

Where can we go to appeal a GM’s judgments?

You could contact Gaile Gray or Regina to appeal a GM's judgment if you think the decision is unfair.

KrisNaga · May 16, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

I think these invisible rules are a load of crap, I could charge 100k for a dungeon run and if the other person accepts then it's a done deal, if they complain they they should be banned for defamation, there is no rule stating how much you can charge for something.
Anet make the game world we play in but we the players make it what it is, we decide the prices, we take the time to do runs and we are the ones who do the major farming.
Anet are not above the law, they have no right to decide our players names unless they are blatantly racist or offensive as it says in the freedom of speech act.
Anet need to be careful about there actions because if they keep pissing people off then I can say for sure that a lot of people who would of bought guild wars 2 will not even look at it now.

Faith Angelis · May 16, 2009, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

How many times has someone said to you “I am going to report you to ANET and get you banned”? Is charging 25k to run a dungeon a banning offense? Is charging 1k per fame a banning offense? What really constitutes an offensive name?

Unless I'm completely misreading your post, you weren't banned for running a dungeon, charging too much or otherwise. In fact, I'm fairly sure no-one has ever been banned for anything like this, ever.

Sure, that might have motivated someone to report your name for being offensive, but that wasn't the reason you were punished. You were punished for an offensive name or names and I'm going to have a small bet that the name(s) in question weren't 'John Smith' or similar.

You want a list of offensive names? Tough. Offensiveness is subjective, and it's impossible to categorically define what any single person will be offended by; let alone several million across dozens of cultures and languages. Besides which, there is a legal aspect to not even trying. The operator of a game has a responsibility for not causing offense to its users. If it allows an offensive name to remain in the game, it is failing this responsibility.

Now you say this favours the greifer and set yourself up as the victim. Lets assume I believe in your angelic innocence in all these matters. There's still nothing you or ANet can do to change the way things are.

Offensiveness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder; in all legislation I know of, it is the responsibility of the individual not to offend - not to be tolerant of offense, reasonable or otherwise. Besides this consideration, it is far more efficient to handle the incidents by issuing name changes.

MrTickle · May 16, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

You could have a char called John Smith and some little shit could report you for no reason other than to grief you and you will get banned. Yes banned on the QQ of one little moron.

Red Sonya · May 16, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Anet are not above the law, they have no right to decide our players names unless they are blatantly racist or offensive as it says in the freedom of speech act.

Oh yes they are. The contitutional rights do not apply in a game world. NCsoft is not an American company and they sell their games world wide. Thus, they can make the laws and the rules to THEIR likings and CHANGE them AT WILL AT ANYTIME if you read the EULA you would have known that. But, beyond the EULA there IS a CODE OF CONDUCT Clause online for EVERYONE to READ. If you don't read it then it's your fault and not Anet or NCsoft.

The clauses from the EULA and Code of Conduct pretty much read like that last line in a job description: AN ANY OTHER DUTIES ASSIGNED.

Anet and NCsoft rule this game world not your government or your constitution.

Kappa9 · May 16, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Well i just got get banned for 72 hours for inap. Character name.
Should i not get an option to change the character name?

Well im off to teh yank servers lookin for "offensive character names" and spam /report NOT....

LeoX · May 16, 2009, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Stupid 13 year old kids who think they'll get a "Thank you, you did a good job" email once they report someone with an "offensive name". Thinking they'll become GMs with their mini-moderating.

Red Sonya · May 16, 2009, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Don't makeup stupid names and you won't get banned. It goes kinda like this if you think it's funny and cute and will get a laugh out of puberescent children or immature teenagers or as LeoX calls them stupid 13 year old kids

then more than likely it's inappropriate.

LeoX · May 16, 2009, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Don't makeup stupid names and you won't get banned. It goes kinda like this if you think it's funny and cute and will get a laugh out of puberescent children or immature teenagers or as LeoX calls them stupid 13 year old kids

then more than likely it's inappropriate.

Oh I hate those 13 years old kids.

But I agree on that point, too. If you're coming up (nobody's targeted here) with stupid names, then you're asking to be provocative, playing with fire and seeking attention.
Plus I never understood people who can put up with such names on their characters.
Then there's the fact that it's subjective, somebody will find something offensive and someone not.

shannamchealn · May 16, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I just thought i would throw in my two cents here. I am not famaliar with Anet's banning policies so im not going to pretend to be. I will tell you that to me with out even looking at there policy it really seems like it would be a matter of common sense. Look at it like this.... would you want your 12 year old son/daughter playing a game with someone named Harry's been shaved???? ... i mean come on... really??? Dont get me wrong, i laughed when i read your name, but i am also 28 years old... and as im sure we all know there are many people on this game that are well under the age of 15.

Do we have a right to name are characters anything we want despite the feelings of other people?

in my opnion, no we dont. i do think this was a interesting topic, and i did read through all of it, and all of the comment's (unusual for me), but as far as im concerned Anet is doing the best they can to protect themselves. Despite my lack of knowledge of there policies, from what i learned from this thread i agree with there banning decisions.

Please dont take this the wrong way persuadu. this is just my opnion, and i do understand where you are coming from.

Nukey · May 16, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

There seems to be a lot of misconception about constitutions, charters of rights and freedoms, and so forth. Just to clear it up, these documents are to prevent government bodies from exercising their power over you in a manner that was, at the time the document was drafted, considered to be undesirable/inappropriate. The judicial system may have read in to, or interpreted certain provisions one way or another since that time, but that's another matter.

This means that the government cannot prosecute you for expressing yourself (among other things), except under circumstances which are covered by provisions in these documents. ANet, NCSoft, McDonald's, Disney or any other corporation/individual can make their own rules on their own property, assuming they don't violate any laws (i.e. statues or common law legislation that have been passed to address these matters; not your constitution/charter). If ANet wants to disallow the name CuteFluffyBunnyWithBigHearts, they can.

In practice there have been some, ahemm, problems with governments violating constitutional/charter rights in the name of one cause or another but, again, another story for another day.

Hope this clears things up a bit!

StormX · May 16, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I don't understand how that name can be construed as sexual, unless 'Harry' is a euphemism for some body part, which I rather doubt. Sounds like someone at support was being particularly sloppy/ban-happy.

enter_the_zone · May 16, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by shannamchealn

I just thought i would throw in my two cents here. I am not famaliar with Anet's banning policies so im not going to pretend to be. I will tell you that to me with out even looking at there policy it really seems like it would be a matter of common sense. Look at it like this.... would you want your 12 year old son/daughter playing a game with someone named Harry's been shaved???? ... i mean come on... really??? Dont get me wrong, i laughed when i read your name, but i am also 28 years old... and as im sure we all know there are many people on this game that are well under the age of 15.

Do we have a right to name are characters anything we want despite the feelings of other people?

in my opnion, no we dont. i do think this was a interesting topic, and i did read through all of it, and all of the comment's (unusual for me), but as far as im concerned Anet is doing the best they can to protect themselves. Despite my lack of knowledge of there policies, from what i learned from this thread i agree with there banning decisions.

Please dont take this the wrong way persuadu. this is just my opnion, and i do understand where you are coming from.

Right, if a 12 year old seriously finds something risque in the name Harry's Been Shaved, might I suggest that the problem isn't the name, it's the child. It's not exactly Iva Hairyclit, is it? Innuendo relies on you recognizing it, and if you do, you're old enough to get the joke. That's how it works..

I honestly think that this should require at least 5 people to report it as offensive before it's treated as such. If you set your bar at the lowest persons level, you land up in a land of undereducated retards.

As for Anet, lacking a crystal clear policy makes their lives easier, but it also leads to mistrust and loosing sections of their playerbase. Half the complaints on this forum exist precisely because they deliberately obfusticate and point blank refuse to give precise and exact reasons for some of their decisions. Why? So that they can never get pulled up on having made a mistake in a decision, because they never actually tell you why they made said decision.

This is a company which has perma-banned a number of my friends and then reversed their decisions, and one person they did it twice. Here's an idea, actually find out what you need to know when making a decision before making it, Anet geniuses.

Anet pretty much just /fail at everything they do nowadays.

Hyperventilate · May 16, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

This is a company which has perma-banned a number of my friends and then reversed their decisions, and one person they did it twice. Here's an idea, actually find out what you need to know when making a decision before making it, Anet geniuses.

Speaking of Permas.... I recently got permabanned for jokingly "hacking" my guildie's computer. I literally said, "im in ur computerz haxx0ring ur pr0n."

It was undone, but it took me four days to get a response out of support. Either I got a GM who was in a bad mood that day or, like I suspect, they don't even read reported logs.

garethporlest18 · May 16, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

It is not young 13 year olds who report. It's the zealous 20+ people that report thinking they are making the world a better place because they saved us from a subjective name that has no demoralizing effect on a person's emotions. And if it does, why is that person playing an online game?